Roguelike - Revision history

imported>Hordes: /* Non-existent plot */

2024-01-16T10:15:15Z

Non-existent plot

← Older revision		Revision as of 10:15, 16 January 2024
(No difference)

imported>Hordes: /* Non-existent plot */

2024-01-16T10:15:15Z

Non-existent plot

← Older revision		Revision as of 10:15, 16 January 2024
(No difference)

imported>Hordes: /* Non-existent plot */

2024-01-16T10:15:15Z

Non-existent plot

← Older revision		Revision as of 10:15, 16 January 2024
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	===Non-existent plot===		===Non-existent plot===
	With a few exceptions (such as [[wikipedia:ADOM\|''ADOM'']]), a classical roguelike's plot consists of the following: go down into a randomly generated dungeon, reach the final level, and either kill the boss or, more commonly, grab an item and escape. Why do this? Well, in [[wikipedia:NetHack\|''NetHack''], you want to get the Amulet for your god. In ''Crawl'', you want the [[Orb of Zot]] for absolutely no defined reason. [[Xom]] could tell you, but then it'd have to kill you. Other than getting [[rune]]s and the Orb, or unlocking treasure [[trove]]s, there are no quests. Other than a [[shop]] (a glorified menu), there are no dedicated NPCs.		With a few exceptions (such as [[wikipedia:ADOM\|''ADOM'']]), a classical roguelike's plot consists of the following: go down into a randomly generated dungeon, reach the final level, and either kill the boss or, more commonly, grab an item and escape. Why do this? Well, in [[wikipedia:NetHack\|''NetHack'']], you want to get the Amulet for your god. In ''Crawl'', you want the [[Orb of Zot]] for absolutely no defined reason. [[Xom]] could tell you, but then it'd have to kill you. Other than getting [[rune]]s and the Orb, or unlocking treasure [[trove]]s, there are no quests. Other than a [[shop]] (a glorified menu), there are no dedicated NPCs.

	==Dungeon Crawl compared to other roguelikes==		==Dungeon Crawl compared to other roguelikes==

Hordes: adjust links

2024-01-16T10:14:54Z

adjust links

← Older revision		Revision as of 10:14, 16 January 2024
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	A '''roguelike''' game is a type of role-playing game named after the genre defining [~~http~~:~~//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rogue_%28computer_game%29~~ ''Rogue'']. Features that are common to all roguelikes include depth, permanent death, and randomization of content. Basically, expect lots of tactical and strategical options, though ''Crawl'' is more condensed than some others.		A '''roguelike''' game is a type of role-playing game named after the genre defining [[wikipedia:Rogue (video game)\|''Rogue'']]. Features that are common to all roguelikes include depth, permanent death, and randomization of content. Basically, expect lots of tactical and strategical options, though ''Crawl'' is more condensed than some others.

	==What is a Roguelike?==		==What is a Roguelike?==
Line 24:		Line 24:

	===Non-existent plot===		===Non-existent plot===
	With a few exceptions (such as [~~http~~:~~//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/~~ADOM ''ADOM'']), a classical roguelike's plot consists of the following: go down into a randomly generated dungeon, reach the final level, and either kill the boss or, more commonly, grab an item and escape. Why do this? Well, in [~~http~~:~~//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/~~NetHack ''NetHack''], you want to get the Amulet for your god. In ''Crawl'', you want the [[Orb of Zot]] for absolutely no defined reason. [[Xom]] could tell you, but then it'd have to kill you. Other than getting [[rune]]s and the Orb, or unlocking treasure [[trove]]s, there are no quests. Other than a [[shop]] (a glorified menu), there are no dedicated NPCs.		With a few exceptions (such as [[wikipedia:ADOM\|''ADOM'']]), a classical roguelike's plot consists of the following: go down into a randomly generated dungeon, reach the final level, and either kill the boss or, more commonly, grab an item and escape. Why do this? Well, in [[wikipedia:NetHack\|''NetHack''], you want to get the Amulet for your god. In ''Crawl'', you want the [[Orb of Zot]] for absolutely no defined reason. [[Xom]] could tell you, but then it'd have to kill you. Other than getting [[rune]]s and the Orb, or unlocking treasure [[trove]]s, there are no quests. Other than a [[shop]] (a glorified menu), there are no dedicated NPCs.

	==Dungeon Crawl compared to other roguelikes==		==Dungeon Crawl compared to other roguelikes==

Hordes at 10:12, 16 January 2024

2024-01-16T10:12:40Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 10:12, 16 January 2024
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	==See Also==		==See Also==
	*Wikipedia on [~~http~~:~~//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/~~Roguelike Roguelike]		*Wikipedia on [[wikipedia:Roguelike\|Roguelike]]

	[[Category:Crawl]]		[[Category:Crawl]]

Hordes: /* Crusade against Tedium */

2023-11-01T15:52:55Z

Crusade against Tedium

← Older revision		Revision as of 15:52, 1 November 2023
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	In the same vein, DCSS also tries to remove 'no-brainers', or completely dominant items/strategies. Balance is not perfect, and not even intentional. For example, species is used as a difficulty slider: a [[Mummy]] is much harder to play than a [[Minotaur]]. Yet ''Crawl'' as a whole is relatively balanced; a single player game has much more leeway with the notion of 'balance', after all.		In the same vein, DCSS also tries to remove 'no-brainers', or completely dominant items/strategies. Balance is not perfect, and not even intentional. For example, species is used as a difficulty slider: a [[Mummy]] is much harder to play than a [[Minotaur]]. Yet ''Crawl'' as a whole is relatively balanced; a single player game has much more leeway with the notion of 'balance', after all.

	On the other hand, ''Stone Soup'' is notorious for its countless removals - regardless of how beloved a feature is. The [[Mountain Dwarf]] was a seemingly benign species, but it was [http://crawl.develz.org/wordpress/whisper-farewell-when-you-leave-gimli removed for being too similar] to [[Hill Orc]] and [[Minotaur]] - all 3 were melee and armour focused races. While it would be easy to just not play MD, the developers has decided that the 'fake choice' presented by ~~too many~~ similar species ~~actually~~ hurts the game. ~~I.e.~~, ~~that~~ MD ~~detracts~~ from "every species feeling distinct or unique". Their removal, as the biggest example, has created a DevTeam and community accepting of dramatic change. But as a free and open source game, you could always play an old version, or one of ''Crawl'''s many [[variants]]. (Though, sacrificing any future changes you may have enjoyed can still be disappointing).		On the other hand, ''Stone Soup'' is notorious for its countless removals - regardless of how beloved a feature is. The [[Mountain Dwarf]] was a seemingly benign species, but it was [http://crawl.develz.org/wordpress/whisper-farewell-when-you-leave-gimli removed for being too similar] to [[Hill Orc]] and [[Minotaur]] - all 3 were melee and armour focused races. While it would be easy to just not play MD, the developers has decided that the 'fake choice' presented by having similar species hurts the game. In other words, MD existing would detract from "every species feeling distinct or unique". Their removal, as the biggest example, has created a DevTeam and community accepting of dramatic change. But as a free and open source game, you could always play an old version, or one of ''Crawl'''s many [[variants]]. (Though, sacrificing any future changes you may have enjoyed can still be disappointing).

	===Difference in Character Building===		===Difference in Character Building===

Hordes at 15:51, 1 November 2023

2023-11-01T15:51:09Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 15:51, 1 November 2023
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	===Crusade against Tedium===		===Crusade against Tedium===
	The DevTeam of ''Stone Soup'' aims to remove 'tedious' mechanics from the game. For a player with knowledge of the game's spoilers, certain mechanics can serve to waste their time and energy. For example, players in ''NetHack'' (3.4.3) are heavily encouraged to go through Sokoban every game, a puzzle branch with 8 fixed layouts. With solutions easily available outside of the game, the branch gives good rewards: food that can last the entire game, along with helpful guaranteed end loot. ''Stone Soup'' has removed their own (completely random) puzzle branch, the [[Labyrinth]], in [[0.23]]. Meanwhile, [[food]] was continuously targeted, ~~facing~~ multiple simplifications and eventual removal. The Labyrinth could be solved with just a few rations, while food itself just ~~became~~ a clock that required opening a menu every few minutes.		The DevTeam of ''Stone Soup'' aims to remove 'tedious' mechanics from the game. For a player with knowledge of the game's spoilers, certain mechanics can serve to waste their time and energy. For example, players in ''NetHack'' (3.4.3) are heavily encouraged to go through Sokoban every game, a puzzle branch with 8 fixed layouts. With solutions easily available outside of the game, the branch gives good rewards: food that can last the entire game, along with helpful guaranteed end loot. ''Stone Soup'' has removed their own (completely random) puzzle branch, the [[Labyrinth]], in [[0.23]]. Meanwhile, [[food]] was continuously targeted by devs, with multiple simplifications and eventual removal. The Labyrinth could be solved with just a few rations, while food itself was mostly just a clock that required opening a menu every few minutes.

	In the same vein, DCSS also tries to remove 'no-brainers', or completely dominant items/strategies. Balance is not perfect, and not even intentional. For example, species is used as a difficulty slider: a [[Mummy]] is much harder to play than a [[Minotaur]]. Yet ''Crawl'' ~~remains fairly~~ balanced; a single player game has much more leeway with balance, after all.		In the same vein, DCSS also tries to remove 'no-brainers', or completely dominant items/strategies. Balance is not perfect, and not even intentional. For example, species is used as a difficulty slider: a [[Mummy]] is much harder to play than a [[Minotaur]]. Yet ''Crawl'' as a whole is relatively balanced; a single player game has much more leeway with the notion of 'balance', after all.

	On the other hand, ''Stone Soup'' is notorious for its countless removals - regardless of how beloved a feature is. The [[Mountain Dwarf]] was a seemingly benign species, but it was [http://crawl.develz.org/wordpress/whisper-farewell-when-you-leave-gimli removed for being too similar] to [[Hill Orc]] and [[Minotaur]] - all 3 were melee and armour focused races. While it would be easy to just not play MD, the developers has decided that the 'fake choice' presented by too many similar species actually hurts the game. I.e., that MD detracts from "every species feeling distinct or unique". Their removal, as the biggest example, has created a DevTeam and community accepting of dramatic change. But as a free and open source game, you could always play an old version, or one of ''Crawl'''s many [[variants]] (~~though~~ sacrificing any future changes you may have enjoyed can still be disappointing).		On the other hand, ''Stone Soup'' is notorious for its countless removals - regardless of how beloved a feature is. The [[Mountain Dwarf]] was a seemingly benign species, but it was [http://crawl.develz.org/wordpress/whisper-farewell-when-you-leave-gimli removed for being too similar] to [[Hill Orc]] and [[Minotaur]] - all 3 were melee and armour focused races. While it would be easy to just not play MD, the developers has decided that the 'fake choice' presented by too many similar species actually hurts the game. I.e., that MD detracts from "every species feeling distinct or unique". Their removal, as the biggest example, has created a DevTeam and community accepting of dramatic change. But as a free and open source game, you could always play an old version, or one of ''Crawl'''s many [[variants]]. (Though, sacrificing any future changes you may have enjoyed can still be disappointing).

	===Difference in Character Building===		===Difference in Character Building===

Hordes: /* Grand Tradition of Roguelikes */

2023-11-01T15:48:09Z

Grand Tradition of Roguelikes

← Older revision		Revision as of 15:48, 1 November 2023
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	==Grand Tradition of Roguelikes==		==Grand Tradition of Roguelikes==
	While not a strict requirement, ''Crawl'' follows the grand tradition of roguelikes by being a top down, tile based, turn based... dungeon crawler, being what ~~PCs~~ during ''Rogue'''s creation could handle. This is in stark contrast to many more modern roguelikes (traditionally called ''roguelites''), which have a wide variety of gameplay genres. Limitation breeds ingenuity, so while the format has some flaws (see [[pillar dancing]], luring...), the ASCII gameplay loop is still exciting to play.		While not a strict requirement, ''Crawl'' follows the grand tradition of roguelikes by being a top down, tile based, turn based... dungeon crawler, being what computers during ''Rogue'''s creation could handle. This is in stark contrast to many more modern roguelikes (traditionally called ''roguelites''), which have a wide variety of gameplay genres. Limitation breeds ingenuity, so while the format has some flaws (see [[pillar dancing]], luring...), the ASCII gameplay loop is still exciting to play.

	===Characters===		===Characters===

Hordes at 15:28, 17 August 2023

2023-08-17T15:28:41Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 15:28, 17 August 2023
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	''Crawl'' seems easier, at first glance, but it's not. It is, however, friendlier. At least in DCSS, there are no real [[instadeath]]s. If something kills you, it'll probably be something you at least half-expected: an [[out-of-depth]] monster at an early level, rather than a necklace you put on happening to be an amulet of strangulation. As of [[0.30]], the only way to die is to run out of HP.		''Crawl'' seems easier, at first glance, but it's not. It is, however, friendlier. At least in DCSS, there are no real [[instadeath]]s. If something kills you, it'll probably be something you at least half-expected: an [[out-of-depth]] monster at an early level, rather than a necklace you put on happening to be an amulet of strangulation. As of [[0.30]], the only way to die is to run out of HP.

	''Stone Soup'' not only has a [[tutorial]] and an in-depth manual, but provides extensive information of any monster, item, or other noun you may come across. You can access them all by right clicking their tile (or '''x''' then '''v''' with keyboard controls), or using '''? /''' followed by what you want to search for. The goal is that, unlike ~~other~~ roguelikes, ''Stone Soup'' should be playable without the aid of a guide or wiki.		''Stone Soup'' not only has a [[tutorial]] and an in-depth manual, but provides extensive information of any monster, item, or other noun you may come across. You can access them all by right clicking their tile (or '''x''' then '''v''' with keyboard controls), or using '''? /''' followed by what you want to search for. The goal is that, unlike earlier roguelikes, ''Stone Soup'' should be playable without the aid of a guide or wiki.

	===Crusade against Tedium===		===Crusade against Tedium===
Line 39:		Line 39:
	In the same vein, DCSS also tries to remove 'no-brainers', or completely dominant items/strategies. Balance is not perfect, and not even intentional. For example, species is used as a difficulty slider: a [[Mummy]] is much harder to play than a [[Minotaur]]. Yet ''Crawl'' remains fairly balanced; a single player game has much more leeway with balance, after all.		In the same vein, DCSS also tries to remove 'no-brainers', or completely dominant items/strategies. Balance is not perfect, and not even intentional. For example, species is used as a difficulty slider: a [[Mummy]] is much harder to play than a [[Minotaur]]. Yet ''Crawl'' remains fairly balanced; a single player game has much more leeway with balance, after all.

	On the other hand, ''Stone Soup'' is notorious for its countless removals - regardless of how beloved a feature is. The [[Mountain Dwarf]] was a seemingly benign species, but it was [http://crawl.develz.org/wordpress/whisper-farewell-when-you-leave-gimli removed for being too similar] to [[Hill Orc]] and [[Minotaur]] - all 3 were melee and armour focused races. While it would be easy to just not play MD, the developers has decided that the 'fake choice' presented by too many similar species actually hurts the game~~, i~~.e., that ~~they detract~~ from "every species feeling distinct or unique". Their removal, as the biggest example, has created a DevTeam and community accepting of dramatic change. But as a free and open source game, you could always play an old version, or one of ''Crawl'''s many [[variants]] (though sacrificing any future changes you may have enjoyed can still be disappointing).		On the other hand, ''Stone Soup'' is notorious for its countless removals - regardless of how beloved a feature is. The [[Mountain Dwarf]] was a seemingly benign species, but it was [http://crawl.develz.org/wordpress/whisper-farewell-when-you-leave-gimli removed for being too similar] to [[Hill Orc]] and [[Minotaur]] - all 3 were melee and armour focused races. While it would be easy to just not play MD, the developers has decided that the 'fake choice' presented by too many similar species actually hurts the game. I.e., that MD detracts from "every species feeling distinct or unique". Their removal, as the biggest example, has created a DevTeam and community accepting of dramatic change. But as a free and open source game, you could always play an old version, or one of ''Crawl'''s many [[variants]] (though sacrificing any future changes you may have enjoyed can still be disappointing).

	===Difference in Character Building===		===Difference in Character Building===

Hordes: /* No Meta Progression */

2023-06-13T22:26:25Z

No Meta Progression

← Older revision		Revision as of 22:26, 13 June 2023
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	''Crawl'' features 'true' permadeath. Nothing tangible carries over between games - you don't unlock new characters, items, or perks, and nothing* from your past game influences your next game. The thing that gets better is ''you'', the player, and perhaps a bit of luck.		''Crawl'' features 'true' permadeath. Nothing tangible carries over between games - you don't unlock new characters, items, or perks, and nothing* from your past game influences your next game. The thing that gets better is ''you'', the player, and perhaps a bit of luck.

	:<nowiki></nowiki> Although [[player ghost]]s are based on previous games, the ghost doesn't transfer loot based on a previous game, it just serves as a challenge. ~~And~~ in an online server, you're just as likely to find another player's ghost. ~~Anyhow~~, a large selection of ~~challenging~~ ghosts ~~exist even on a fresh install~~ (from Stone Soup [[0.22]] onwards).		:<nowiki></nowiki> Although [[player ghost]]s are based on previous games, the ghost doesn't transfer loot based on a previous game, it just serves as a challenge. Plus, in an online server, you're just as likely to find another player's ghost. Even on a fresh offline install, there exists a large selection of ghosts (from Stone Soup [[0.22]] onwards).

	===Relevant Random Content===		===Relevant Random Content===