Djinni - Revision history

imported>Hordes: de-CBA

2025-10-13T08:59:18Z

de-CBA

← Older revision		Revision as of 08:59, 13 October 2025
(No difference)

imported>Hordes: de-CBA

2025-10-13T08:59:18Z

de-CBA

← Older revision		Revision as of 08:59, 13 October 2025
(No difference)

imported>Hordes: de-CBA

2025-10-13T08:59:18Z

de-CBA

← Older revision		Revision as of 08:59, 13 October 2025
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	{{~~version031~~}}		{{version033}}
	{{flavour\|Djinn are beings of smokeless fire. They enter the world spontaneously and without explanation, born with a tireless hunger for knowledge and adventure. Djinn have a unique relationship with magic: rather than learning spells from books, their spells come from within, welling up from their fiery core as they gain experience. They draw from that same fiery core to cast spells - for Djinn, magical power and health are one and the same.		{{flavour\|Djinn are beings of smokeless fire. They enter the world spontaneously and without explanation, born with a tireless hunger for knowledge and adventure. Djinn have a unique relationship with magic: rather than learning spells from books, their spells come from within, welling up from their fiery core as they gain experience. They draw from that same fiery core to cast spells - for Djinn, magical power and health are one and the same.

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	==Preferred Backgrounds==		==Preferred Backgrounds==
	*'''~~Warriors:~~''' [[~~Gladiator~~]]		*'''Warrior-mages''': [[Warper]]
	*'''~~Adventurers~~:''' [[~~Shapeshifter~~]]		*'''Mages:''' [[Hedge Wizard]], [[Conjurer]], [[Fire Elementalist]], [[Ice Elementalist]], [[Air Elementalist]]
	*'''Mages:''' [[~~Hedge Wizard~~]], [[Fire Elementalist]], [[Ice Elementalist]]

	==Level Bonuses==		==Level Bonuses==
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	==History==		==History==
	~~{{CBA\|0.33\|Djinn will have new recommended backgrounds: [[gladiator]] and [[shapeshifter]] will be replaced with [[air elementalist]], [[conjurer]], and [[warper]].}}~~
	*Prior to [[0.31]], Djinn had a -3 Spellcasting aptitude, and could not learn any other spell school. However, a level of Spellcasting counted as a level in every spell school (in addition to the bonus from Spellcasting itself).		*Prior to [[0.31]], Djinn had a -3 Spellcasting aptitude, and could not learn any other spell school. However, a level of Spellcasting counted as a level in every spell school (in addition to the bonus from Spellcasting itself).
	**Djinn skill training was slightly slower (roughly -0.16 aptitude), and their starting skills were particularly worse (due to having a "-3" aptitude).		**Djinn skill training was slightly slower (roughly -0.16 aptitude), and their starting skills were particularly worse (due to having a "-3" aptitude).

Hordes: /* Starting Skills and Equipment */

2025-07-14T00:36:35Z

Starting Skills and Equipment

← Older revision		Revision as of 00:36, 14 July 2025
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	==Starting Skills and Equipment==		==Starting Skills and Equipment==
	Djinn receive the skills, equipment, and spells listed for their background, save for the following ~~restriction~~:		Djinn receive the skills, equipment, and spells listed for their background, save for the following adjustments:
	*For magic skills, Djinn get a special modifier. Djinn takes the ~~backgrounds~~ highest ''base'' skill, as if they had Human aptitudes, then apply it to all spell schools equally. For example, an [[Ice Elementalist]]'s highest skill is 4 Ice Magic, so a Djinn Ice Elementalist gets 4 Spellcasting, 4 Fire Magic, 4 Ice Magic, etc.		*For magic skills, Djinn get a special modifier. Djinn takes the background's highest ''base'' magic skill, as if they had Human aptitudes, then apply it to all spell schools equally. For example, an [[Ice Elementalist]]'s highest skill is 4 Ice Magic, so a Djinn Ice Elementalist gets 4 Spellcasting, 4 Fire Magic, 4 Ice Magic, etc.
	*Djinn do not get [[potions of magic]].		*Djinn do not get [[potions of magic]].

imported>Ge0ff: /* History */ CBA new background recommendations from 0192c196d

2024-12-19T11:04:03Z

History: CBA new background recommendations from 0192c196d

← Older revision		Revision as of 11:04, 19 December 2024
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	==History==		==History==
			{{CBA\|0.33\|Djinn will have new recommended backgrounds: [[gladiator]] and [[shapeshifter]] will be replaced with [[air elementalist]], [[conjurer]], and [[warper]].}}
	*Prior to [[0.31]], Djinn had a -3 Spellcasting aptitude, and could not learn any other spell school. However, a level of Spellcasting counted as a level in every spell school (in addition to the bonus from Spellcasting itself).		*Prior to [[0.31]], Djinn had a -3 Spellcasting aptitude, and could not learn any other spell school. However, a level of Spellcasting counted as a level in every spell school (in addition to the bonus from Spellcasting itself).
	**Djinn skill training was slightly slower (roughly -0.16 aptitude), and their starting skills were particularly worse (due to having a "-3" aptitude).		**Djinn skill training was slightly slower (roughly -0.16 aptitude), and their starting skills were particularly worse (due to having a "-3" aptitude).

Patrick2011b: it seems like the spells are rolled at the start of the game, which means sacs don't affect them

2024-06-19T19:42:53Z

it seems like the spells are rolled at the start of the game, which means sacs don't affect them

← Older revision		Revision as of 19:42, 19 June 2024
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	==Preferred Backgrounds==		==Preferred Backgrounds==
	*'''Warriors:''' [[Gladiator]]		*'''Warriors:''' [[Gladiator]]
	*'''~~Warrior-mages~~:''' [[~~Transmuter~~]]		*'''Adventurers:''' [[Shapeshifter]]
	*'''Mages:''' [[Hedge Wizard]], [[Fire Elementalist]], [[Ice Elementalist]]		*'''Mages:''' [[Hedge Wizard]], [[Fire Elementalist]], [[Ice Elementalist]]

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	\|}		\|}

	Djinn can acquire any player spell, but there are several restrictions:<ref>{{source ref\|0.30.1\|ng-setup.cc\|~~406~~}}</ref>		Djinn can acquire any player spell, but there are several restrictions:<ref>{{source ref\|0.31.0\|ng-setup.cc\|391}}</ref>
	*Spells must be new, which excludes the spells your [[Background]] starts with and spells you have already received.		*Spells must be new, which excludes the spells your [[Background]] starts with and spells you have already received.
	*Spells must be castable, which excludes [[Sublimation of Blood]] ~~and spells from [[Ru\|sacrificed]] magic schools~~.		*Spells must be castable, which excludes [[Sublimation of Blood]].
	**Djinn can still receive spells forbidden by their [[god]], however (such as [[Necromancy]] spells when following a [[good god]], or any spell at all when following [[Trog]]).		**Djinn can still receive spells forbidden by their [[god]], however (such as [[Necromancy]] spells when following a [[good god]], or any spell at all when following [[Trog]]).
			**Djinn who follow [[Ru]] can still receive spells from schools they have sacrificed.
	**Djinn can only receive [[Spellforged Servitor]] or [[Iskenderun's Battlesphere]] if they already have a spell that can be used by the servitor or trigger the battlesphere, respectively.		**Djinn can only receive [[Spellforged Servitor]] or [[Iskenderun's Battlesphere]] if they already have a spell that can be used by the servitor or trigger the battlesphere, respectively.

Hordes at 02:49, 30 March 2024

2024-03-30T02:49:29Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 02:49, 30 March 2024
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	*If you were playing a [[Kobold]] (with flat 0 magic aptitudes) and ''only'' cared about [[spell power]], you would train to {5 Spellcasting, 15 Conjurations}. This would cost 7275 skill points.		*If you were playing a [[Kobold]] (with flat 0 magic aptitudes) and ''only'' cared about [[spell power]], you would train to {5 Spellcasting, 15 Conjurations}. This would cost 7275 skill points.
	*A Djinn would reach the same amount of power at {13 Spellcasting, 13 Conjurations}. Each of the 11 skills costs 713 skill points, or 7843 skill points in total. This is only +7.8% more XP than the Kobold, or a '''-0.43''' aptitude. This happens because going from 12 -> 13 in a skill is cheaper than going from 14 -> 15 in a skill.		*A Djinn would reach the same amount of power at {13 Spellcasting, 13 Conjurations}. Each of the 11 skills costs 713 skill points, or 7843 skill points in total. This is only +7.8% more XP than the Kobold, or a '''-0.43''' aptitude. This happens because going from 12 -> 13 in a skill is cheaper than going from 14 -> 15 in a skill.
	*In practice, spell power isn't everything. The Kobold may want to train more Spellcasting, for either MP or spell level purposes. Said Kobold at {10 Spellcasting, 13.5 Conjurations} would reach the same power, but at a cost of 7913 skill points. ~~Because~~ Djinn don't need to spend XP for MP or spell levels, they can invest more into spell power.		*In practice, spell power isn't everything. The Kobold may want to train more Spellcasting, for either MP or spell level purposes. Said Kobold at {10 Spellcasting, 13.5 Conjurations} would reach the same power, but at a cost of 7913 skill points (more than the Djinn!). In other words, because Djinn don't need to spend XP for MP or spell levels, they can invest more into spell power.
	:		:
	For dual-school spells, Djinn only become better. Using the same analysis for [[Fireball]], a Kobold would be efficient at {8 Spellcasting, 15 Fire, 15 Conj}, costing 15300 skill points. A Djinni equals that at {13.6 Spellcasting, 13.6 Fire, 13.6 Conj}, or 8657 skill points, which is 56.6% the XP. That's an effective aptitude of '''+3.29''' - substantially better than [[Deep Elves]]!		For dual-school spells, Djinn only become better. Using the same analysis for [[Fireball]], a Kobold would be efficient at {8 Spellcasting, 15 Fire, 15 Conj}, costing 15300 skill points. A Djinni equals that at {13.6 Spellcasting, 13.6 Fire, 13.6 Conj}, or 8657 skill points, which is 56.6% the XP. That's an effective aptitude of '''+3.29''' - substantially better than [[Deep Elves]]!

Hordes: /* History */

2024-03-13T03:14:42Z

History

← Older revision		Revision as of 03:14, 13 March 2024
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	==History==		==History==
	*Prior to [[0.31]], Djinn had a -3 Spellcasting aptitude, and could not learn any other spell school. However, a level of Spellcasting counted as a level in every spell school (in addition to the bonus from Spellcasting itself).		*Prior to [[0.31]], Djinn had a -3 Spellcasting aptitude, and could not learn any other spell school. However, a level of Spellcasting counted as a level in every spell school (in addition to the bonus from Spellcasting itself).
	**Djinn skill training was slightly slower (~ -0.16 aptitude), and their starting skills were particularly worse (due to having a "-3" aptitude).		**Djinn skill training was slightly slower (roughly -0.16 aptitude), and their starting skills were particularly worse (due to having a "-3" aptitude).
	**Djinn could not benefit from the [[magical staff]] melee bonus, the [[pain brand]], or [[manual]]s of unlearnable spell schools. However, [[Ashenzari]] curses were particularly strong: Djinn were more likely to get useful curses, and "Introspection" curses benefited Fighting ''and'' every spell school.		**Djinn could not benefit from the [[magical staff]] melee bonus, the [[pain brand]], or [[manual]]s of unlearnable spell schools. However, [[Ashenzari]] curses were particularly strong: Djinn were more likely to get useful curses, and "Introspection" curses benefited Fighting ''and'' the equivalent of every spell school.
	*The modern incarnation of Djinn, inspired by the Djinn of old and the [[Oni]] variant found in some forks of ''Dungeon Crawl'', was added in [[0.27]].		*The modern incarnation of Djinn, inspired by the Djinn of old and the [[Oni]] variant found in some forks of ''Dungeon Crawl'', was added in [[0.27]].
	*Djinn were considered for inclusion in both [[0.13]] and [[0.14]], but were ultimately cut before being included in any stable release. The old version had a more conventional approach to learning magic, but used 2 of their EP (HP and MP combined) for each MP spent. They were also subject to several special cases (complete immunity to all forms of [[fire]] including [[hellfire]], [[spell hunger]] caused [[magical contamination]], only certain methods of [[channeling]] worked).		*Djinn were considered for inclusion in both [[0.13]] and [[0.14]], but were ultimately cut before being included in any stable release. The old version had a more conventional approach to learning magic, but used 2 of their EP (HP and MP combined) for each MP spent. They were also subject to several special cases (complete immunity to all forms of [[fire]] including [[hellfire]], [[spell hunger]] caused [[magical contamination]], only certain methods of [[channeling]] worked).

Hordes: remove extra space

2024-02-21T19:45:44Z

remove extra space

← Older revision		Revision as of 19:45, 21 February 2024
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	Other than that, poison immunity is helpful to survive the earlier portions of the game, and Djinn are passable in "pure" melee combat.		Other than that, poison immunity is helpful to survive the earlier portions of the game, and Djinn are passable in "pure" melee combat.

	{{species_aptitudes\|Djinni}}		{{species_aptitudes\|Djinni}}

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	Traditional, spell granting "magic" gods are unavailable for Djinn, but most other religions are reasonable to choose from:		Traditional, spell granting "magic" gods are unavailable for Djinn, but most other religions are reasonable to choose from:

	*[[Ashenzari]] is a generally strong god who offers skill boosts. Since Djinn can't worship Vehumet, Ash is the only god that directly ~~boosts your spellcasting~~.		*[[Ashenzari]] is a generally strong god who offers skill boosts. Since Djinn can't worship Vehumet, Ash is the only god that can lower your spell failure rates directly.
	*[[Makhleb]] recovers HP on kill, which lets you cast spells more freely; a moderately strong god choice for spellcasting Djinn.		*[[Makhleb]] recovers HP on kill, which lets you cast spells more freely; a moderately strong god choice for spellcasting Djinn.
	*[[Elyvilon]] can be a good choice for the HP restoration, while [[The Shining One]] acts like Makhleb against undead and demonic creatures. Mind that you can still get [[evil]] spells when worshipping a good god, which the god will prevent you from casting.		*[[Elyvilon]] can be a good choice for the HP restoration, while [[The Shining One]] acts like Makhleb against undead and demonic creatures. Mind that you can still get [[evil]] spells when worshipping a good god, which the god will prevent you from casting.

Hordes: fix dj math notes

2024-02-21T13:14:55Z

fix dj math notes

← Older revision		Revision as of 13:14, 21 February 2024
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	Djinn have +11 aptitudes in magic, but are forced to train all skills equally. At the start of the game, this equates to training a single school at a -2.8 aptitude. But by the time a caster reaches mid-game, their effective aptitude is much higher than this in practice.<ref>		Djinn have +11 aptitudes in magic, but are forced to train all skills equally. At the start of the game, this equates to training a single school at a -2.8 aptitude. But by the time a caster reaches mid-game, their effective aptitude is much higher than this in practice.<ref>
	Djinn split XP between 11 skills at a +11 aptitude. As XP cost = <code>2^(-apt/4)</code>, each skill level costs <code>2^(-11/4) * 12</code> = 1.63x the XP of a single skill. This equates to training a single "skill" at <code>-4 * log2(1.63)</code> = -2.84 aptitude. However, this "skill" includes both [every Spell School] and Spellcasting. Once you take that into account, Djinn are better than a -2.84 aptitude suggests. Say you want to cast a [[Conjurations]] spell:		Djinn split XP between 11 skills at a +11 aptitude. As XP cost = <code>2^(-apt/4)</code>, each skill level costs <code>2^(-11/4) * 11</code> = 1.63x the XP of a single skill. This equates to training a single "skill" at <code>-4 * log2(1.63)</code> = -2.84 aptitude. However, this "skill" includes both [every Spell School] and Spellcasting. Once you take that into account, Djinn are better than a -2.84 aptitude suggests. Say you want to cast a [[Conjurations]] spell:
	*If you were playing a [[Kobold]] (with flat 0 magic aptitudes) and ''only'' cared about [[spell power]], you would train to {5 Spellcasting, 15 Conjurations}. This would cost 7275 skill points.		*If you were playing a [[Kobold]] (with flat 0 magic aptitudes) and ''only'' cared about [[spell power]], you would train to {5 Spellcasting, 15 Conjurations}. This would cost 7275 skill points.
	*A Djinn would reach the same amount of power at {13 Spellcasting, 13 Conjurations}. Each of the 11 skills costs 713 skill points, or 7843 skill points in total. This is only +7.8% more XP than the Kobold, or a '''-0.43''' aptitude. This happens because going from 12 -> 13 in a skill is cheaper than going from 14 -> 15 in a skill.		*A Djinn would reach the same amount of power at {13 Spellcasting, 13 Conjurations}. Each of the 11 skills costs 713 skill points, or 7843 skill points in total. This is only +7.8% more XP than the Kobold, or a '''-0.43''' aptitude. This happens because going from 12 -> 13 in a skill is cheaper than going from 14 -> 15 in a skill.
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	==History==		==History==
	*Prior to [[0.31]], Djinn had a -3 Spellcasting aptitude, and could not learn any other spell school. However, a level of Spellcasting counted as a level in every spell school (in addition to the bonus from Spellcasting itself).		*Prior to [[0.31]], Djinn had a -3 Spellcasting aptitude, and could not learn any other spell school. However, a level of Spellcasting counted as a level in every spell school (in addition to the bonus from Spellcasting itself).
	**Djinn skill training was ~~roughly~~ ~~~4% faster (net +~~0.3 aptitude) ~~than the current version. However~~, their starting skills were worse~~, because they had~~ a "-3" aptitude.		**Djinn skill training was slightly slower (~ -0.16 aptitude), and their starting skills were particularly worse (due to having a "-3" aptitude).
	**Djinn could not benefit from the [[magical staff]] melee bonus, the [[pain brand]], or [[manual]]s of unlearnable spell schools. However, [[Ashenzari]] curses were particularly strong: Djinn were more likely to get useful curses, and "Introspection" curses benefited Fighting ''and'' every spell school.		**Djinn could not benefit from the [[magical staff]] melee bonus, the [[pain brand]], or [[manual]]s of unlearnable spell schools. However, [[Ashenzari]] curses were particularly strong: Djinn were more likely to get useful curses, and "Introspection" curses benefited Fighting ''and'' every spell school.
	*The modern incarnation of Djinn, inspired by the Djinn of old and the [[Oni]] variant found in some forks of ''Dungeon Crawl'', was added in [[0.27]].		*The modern incarnation of Djinn, inspired by the Djinn of old and the [[Oni]] variant found in some forks of ''Dungeon Crawl'', was added in [[0.27]].