ARCHIVED Davion Fuxa's Ogre guide - Revision history

imported>Qqqqwe2: Qqqqwe2 moved page Davion Fuxa's Ogre guide to ARCHIVED Davion Fuxa's Ogre guide: old, many references to several removed items

2024-08-30T18:48:03Z

Qqqqwe2 moved page Davion Fuxa's Ogre guide to ARCHIVED Davion Fuxa's Ogre guide: old, many references to several removed items

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imported>Qqqqwe2: Qqqqwe2 moved page Davion Fuxa's Ogre guide to ARCHIVED Davion Fuxa's Ogre guide: old, many references to several removed items

2024-08-30T18:48:03Z

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imported>Qqqqwe2: Qqqqwe2 moved page Davion Fuxa's Ogre guide to ARCHIVED Davion Fuxa's Ogre guide: old, many references to several removed items

2024-08-30T18:48:03Z

Qqqqwe2 moved page Davion Fuxa's Ogre guide to ARCHIVED Davion Fuxa's Ogre guide: old, many references to several removed items

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imported>NormalPerson7: Add {{advice}} template

2018-07-29T18:02:25Z

Add {{advice}} template

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imported>Flun: Link-ified some keywords

2013-04-09T19:10:04Z

Link-ified some keywords

imported>Flun: Changed version tag from unknown to 0.11. Its pretty much up to date right?

2013-04-09T19:05:31Z

Changed version tag from unknown to 0.11. Its pretty much up to date right?

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	A simple guide for new players to look into when playing the Ogre. Presented here are some general ideas on how to play with Ogres, and what options are present to them. I mostly wrote this guide because I found that what was written for them to be lacking and not really descriptive of what to do with an Ogre – and because someone mentioned they had no real guide to play from when they started.		A simple guide for new players to look into when playing the Ogre. Presented here are some general ideas on how to play with Ogres, and what options are present to them. I mostly wrote this guide because I found that what was written for them to be lacking and not really descriptive of what to do with an Ogre – and because someone mentioned they had no real guide to play from when they started.

imported>Davion Fuxa: /* Early Game Ogre Skill Training */

2013-04-09T18:55:13Z

Early Game Ogre Skill Training

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	An important thing to note about Ogres is that if you want to survive early on, you need to maximize your offensive capabilities as fast as possible and as early as possible. This means that generally you may want to leave things like Magic Schools, Defensive Skills, and Invocations gaining less experience while to prioritize your experience into '''Mace & Flail, Throwing, and Fighting; or Conjurations''' if you happen to be playing a Wizard. Note I say ‘gaining less’ and not ‘off’, if you’re a Zealot who doesn't train Invocations then you will hurt yourself when it comes time to make use of them, and Hexes on an Arcane Marksmen can be tremendously helpful versus uniques like Grinder and Sonja or on particularly tough monsters like Hill Giants which have mediocre magic resistance.		An important thing to note about Ogres is that if you want to survive early on, you need to maximize your offensive capabilities as fast as possible and as early as possible. This means that generally you may want to leave things like Magic Schools, Defensive Skills, and Invocations gaining less experience while to prioritize your experience into '''Mace & Flail, Throwing, and Fighting; or Conjurations''' if you happen to be playing a Wizard. Note I say ‘gaining less’ and not ‘off’, if you’re a Zealot who doesn't train Invocations then you will hurt yourself when it comes time to make use of them, and Hexes on an Arcane Marksmen can be tremendously helpful versus uniques like Grinder and Sonja or on particularly tough monsters like Hill Giants which have mediocre magic resistance.

	Make a note that while you are best off with Mace & Flail weaponry due to your really high modifier for it, if you find a '''decently branded or artefact Polearm''' early enough before you have really begun to train Mace & Flail to a high level, you should consider using Polearms instead. While the modifier for Mace & Flail is clearly better then for Polearms (And every other ~~species~~), the Modifier for Polearms isn’t exactly terrible on its own and can be trained up quickly enough on an Ogre. Depending on how good a Polearm might be as well, you may want to abandon Mace & Flail for it even as the game begins to get late - I found for example that Wyrmbane is an extremely powerful weapon in the hands of an Ogre once you train up Polearms to 12 and increase Wyrmbane's Weapon Damage and Accuracy killing a few Dragons or Draconians.		Make a note that while you are best off with Mace & Flail weaponry due to your really high species modifier for it, if you find a '''decently branded or artefact Polearm''' early enough before you have really begun to train Mace & Flail to a high level, you should consider using Polearms instead. While the modifier for Mace & Flail is clearly better then for Polearms (And every other weapon category), the Modifier for Polearms isn’t exactly terrible on its own and can be trained up quickly enough on an Ogre. Depending on how good a Polearm might be as well, you may want to abandon Mace & Flail for it even as the game begins to get late - I found for example that Wyrmbane is an extremely powerful weapon in the hands of an Ogre once you train up Polearms to 12 and increase Wyrmbane's Weapon Damage and Accuracy killing a few Dragons or Draconians.

	As to what to train of Mace & Flail or Polearms, Throwing, Fighting, and Conjurations, that is really a question of what you have on hand or plan to do with your character. Large Rocks are terribly inaccurate and it usually takes to the double digits in Throwing skill before you start hitting with them reliably. Weapon skills are really a matter of what weapon you will be using and when – A Bardiche or a Giant Spiked Club need a lot of training in their weapon skills to use effectively but for a simple Whip or Trident you don’t need as much weapon skill training. Fighting is generally always useful when you need more health and can actually be considered one of your first defensive stats, plus the skill helps you out offensively as well. As for Wizards training Conjuration, it is just a question of how much of a hybrid build you plan to pursue and when you want Mephitic Cloud online.		As to what to train of Mace & Flail or Polearms, Throwing, Fighting, and Conjurations, that is really a question of what you have on hand or plan to do with your character. Large Rocks are terribly inaccurate and it usually takes to the double digits in Throwing skill before you start hitting with them reliably. Weapon skills are really a matter of what weapon you will be using and when – A Bardiche or a Giant Spiked Club need a lot of training in their weapon skills to use effectively but for a simple Whip or Trident you don’t need as much weapon skill training. Fighting is generally always useful when you need more health and can actually be considered one of your first defensive stats, plus the skill helps you out offensively as well. As for Wizards training Conjuration, it is just a question of how much of a hybrid build you plan to pursue and when you want Mephitic Cloud online.

imported>Davion Fuxa: Used Bold Font on Everything that needed it.

2013-04-09T18:47:56Z

Used Bold Font on Everything that needed it.

Show changes

imported>Davion Fuxa: dpeg pointed out a few things, this is just a bunch of minor edits for them

2013-04-09T18:29:44Z

dpeg pointed out a few things, this is just a bunch of minor edits for them

imported>MoogleDan at 05:31, 9 April 2013

2013-04-09T05:31:08Z

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			{{version}}

	A simple guide for new players to look into when playing the Ogre. Presented here are some general ideas on how to play with Ogres, and what options are present to them. I mostly wrote this guide because I found that what was written for them to be lacking and not really descriptive of what to do with an Ogre – and because someone mentioned they had no real guide to play from when they started.		A simple guide for new players to look into when playing the Ogre. Presented here are some general ideas on how to play with Ogres, and what options are present to them. I mostly wrote this guide because I found that what was written for them to be lacking and not really descriptive of what to do with an Ogre – and because someone mentioned they had no real guide to play from when they started.

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	The Ogre species has really constrained options when choosing a background. Because of its haphazard ability to avoid damage in any fashion through Dodging, Armor, or Stealth; an Ogre primarily has to focus on augmenting its offensive abilities to kill the enemy first in order to play. A secondary focus is to try and make up for its defensive shortcomings by way of spells or God abilities.		The Ogre species has really constrained options when choosing a background. Because of its haphazard ability to avoid damage in any fashion through Dodging, Armor, or Stealth; an Ogre primarily has to focus on augmenting its offensive abilities to kill the enemy first in order to play. A secondary focus is to try and make up for its defensive shortcomings by way of spells or God abilities.

	'''~~Berserkers~~, ~~Hunters~~, Arcane Marksmen, and Wizard''' are the limited set of Backgrounds listed as suitable for Ogres. These are all suitable choices because they tend to primarily offer something that either helps the Ogre do more damage, help the Ogre out defensively, or do a mixture of both. What’s more they tend to help your Ogre out immediately upon entering the dungeon.		'''[[Berserker]]s, [[Hunter]]s, [[Arcane Marksmen]], and [[Wizard]]''' are the limited set of Backgrounds listed as suitable for Ogres. These are all suitable choices because they tend to primarily offer something that either helps the Ogre do more damage, help the Ogre out defensively, or do a mixture of both. What’s more they tend to help your Ogre out immediately upon entering the dungeon.

	One other choice I would recommend that isn’t in the limited starting set of recommended backgrounds but can do quite well is the '''Abyssal Knight'''. While not immediately ready to kick ass, the Abyssal Knight can do quite well once it has Banishment online, and until then they it can use Bend Space to escape from some of the trouble it may encounter on its adventure.		One other choice I would recommend that isn’t in the limited starting set of recommended backgrounds but can do quite well is the '''[[Abyssal Knight]]'''. While not immediately ready to kick ass, the Abyssal Knight can do quite well once it has Banishment online, and until then they it can use Bend Space to escape from some of the trouble it may encounter on its adventure.

	For the adventurous looking to try other backgrounds that can work well with Ogres, one might try Air Elementalist, ~~Necromancers~~, ~~Skalds~~, and ~~Warpers~~. These backgrounds are much more difficult to run with for Ogres as the playstyle of these backgrounds require you to train spell schools with the Ogre's poor aptitudes to succeed while not having an immediate panic button ready to save them in a tricky situation. Once everything is online though, the character will be running around with some neat tricks in tow from the spellbooks they start out with.		For the adventurous looking to try other backgrounds that can work well with Ogres, one might try [[Air Elementalist]], [[Necromancer]]s, [[Skald]]s, and [[Warper]]s. These backgrounds are much more difficult to run with for Ogres as the playstyle of these backgrounds require you to train spell schools with the Ogre's poor aptitudes to succeed while not having an immediate panic button ready to save them in a tricky situation. Once everything is online though, the character will be running around with some neat tricks in tow from the spellbooks they start out with.

	==Gods to Worship==		==Gods to Worship==
	Several of the Gods offer different boons that can aid an Ogre in his quest through the dungeon. Some however are less useful and should probably be avoided. Much like selecting a background, when choosing a God you want to augment the Ogre’s Offense or make up for its lack of Defense.		Several of the Gods offer different boons that can aid an Ogre in his quest through the dungeon. Some however are less useful and should probably be avoided. Much like selecting a background, when choosing a God you want to augment the Ogre’s Offense or make up for its lack of Defense.

	Choice Gods upon reaching the Ecumenical Temple might be '''Makhleb and Okawaru'''; these gods offer a variety of ways to help you both increase your Offensives and/or aid you Defensively. With '''Trog''' you generally would only worship him after starting with Berserkers, but if you don't plan on using spells you might pick him over Okawaru when playing on a Hunter. If you pick the Abyssal Knight background or somehow manage to obtain worship under '''Lugonu''', it may take time to build up the piety but once you have the god abilities online you'll have a fairly easy time handling anything remotely threatening.		Choice Gods upon reaching the Ecumenical Temple might be '''[[Makhleb]] and [[Okawaru]]'''; these gods offer a variety of ways to help you both increase your Offensives and/or aid you Defensively. With '''[[Trog]]''' you generally would only worship him after starting with Berserkers, but if you don't plan on using spells you might pick him over Okawaru when playing on a Hunter. If you pick the Abyssal Knight background or somehow manage to obtain worship under '''Lugonu''', it may take time to build up the piety but once you have the god abilities online you'll have a fairly easy time handling anything remotely threatening.

	'''Fedhas Madash, Jiyva, and Ashenzari''' are some decent secondary Gods to consider. I say secondary however because while you can gain great benefits from these Gods, there are also some penalties with them – Fedhas for food for instance, Jiyva may cost you a lot of Scrolls and Potions which are important as escape options during any part of the game, and Ashenzari of course has the big problem with the fact that you only get the benefits from him when you curse your equipment - and cursing a Giant Spiked Club will restrict your ability to butcher with it. Jiyva in particular isn’t available in the Ecumenical Temple and the only way you could begin quickly worshiping him is if an early Alter spawned for him in the dungeon		'''[[Fedhas Madash]], [[Jiyva]], and [[Ashenzari]]''' are some decent secondary Gods to consider. I say secondary however because while you can gain great benefits from these Gods, there are also some penalties with them – Fedhas for food for instance, Jiyva may cost you a lot of Scrolls and Potions which are important as escape options during any part of the game, and Ashenzari of course has the big problem with the fact that you only get the benefits from him when you curse your equipment - and cursing a Giant Spiked Club will restrict your ability to butcher with it. Jiyva in particular isn’t available in the Ecumenical Temple and the only way you could begin quickly worshiping him is if an early Alter spawned for him in the dungeon

	Note that there is nothing stopping you from playing other Gods as well – but with the difficult start that an Ogre presents you may find the other Gods to be considerable less useful in helping to keep your Ogre alive to the point where their properties would begin to really show. Taking The '''Shining One or Zin''' later on an Ogre can have huge benefits but the lack of using Poison or hitting unaware foes with The Shining one and not being able to skin Trolls with Zin for their Hide hurts quite a bit as well if you were to take these Gods initially. '''Kikubaaqudgha''' is a late bloomer in benefits, and the survivability of an Ogre may mean you won't survive long enough to see those benefits. '''Vehumet and Sif Muna''' can be a great benefit to most spell-casting focused characters but generally you will not really benefit as much since your eventually focus should fall into hitting things with big sticks and rocks.		Note that there is nothing stopping you from playing other Gods as well – but with the difficult start that an Ogre presents you may find the other Gods to be considerable less useful in helping to keep your Ogre alive to the point where their properties would begin to really show. Taking The '''Shining One or Zin''' later on an Ogre can have huge benefits but the lack of using Poison or hitting unaware foes with The Shining one and not being able to skin Trolls with Zin for their Hide hurts quite a bit as well if you were to take these Gods initially. '''[[Kikubaaqudgha]]''' is a late bloomer in benefits, and the survivability of an Ogre may mean you won't survive long enough to see those benefits. '''[[Vehumet]] and [[Sif Muna]]''' can be a great benefit to most spell-casting focused characters but generally you will not really benefit as much since your eventually focus should fall into hitting things with big sticks and rocks.

	==Progressive Stat Selection==		==Progressive Stat Selection==
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	In regards to '''Shields''', using ones with egos that help shore up your resistances to whatever you need. Gaining a Shield with Poison Resistance can free up another of your limited slots for something else in Snake Pits, Spider's Nest, or Shoals. With Fire, Cold, or Fire and Cold, you can help beef out your defenses in the end game where such attacks will become more common place.		In regards to '''Shields''', using ones with egos that help shore up your resistances to whatever you need. Gaining a Shield with Poison Resistance can free up another of your limited slots for something else in Snake Pits, Spider's Nest, or Shoals. With Fire, Cold, or Fire and Cold, you can help beef out your defenses in the end game where such attacks will become more common place.

	With Ranged weapons it should be fairly obvious that '''Large ~~Rocks~~''' are awesome and you should certainly make use of them when they are available. Note though that they are heavy suckers and they are less useful against enemies closer to the edge of your characters Line of Sight – sometimes they will be thrown just shy of your target. You should try to diversify or supplement your Large Rocks with some '''Javelins''' which are lighter but still do decent damage and will hit at maximum range – easily stocked up in Shoals if available. Another fancy weapon that utilizes the Throwing Skill to consider is '''Blowguns''' which can provide an assortment of debuffs on enemies that can be useful for killing them; higher Throwing Skill will also cause the debuffs outside of poison to last longer. '''Curare Needles''' in particular are devastatingly powerful and will be useful for a long while - plus it isn't effected by the Throwing skill (though you still need Throwing Skill for firing it out of the Blowgun, so don't entirely skimp on it). Before you have any of that though, just throwing Darts, Stones, and random starter weapons can help whittle stuff down at range before you kill it in Melee.		With Ranged weapons it should be fairly obvious that '''[[Large Rock]]s''' are awesome and you should certainly make use of them when they are available. Note though that they are heavy suckers and they are less useful against enemies closer to the edge of your characters Line of Sight – sometimes they will be thrown just shy of your target. You should try to diversify or supplement your Large Rocks with some '''Javelins''' which are lighter but still do decent damage and will hit at maximum range – easily stocked up in Shoals if available. Another fancy weapon that utilizes the Throwing Skill to consider is '''Blowguns''' which can provide an assortment of debuffs on enemies that can be useful for killing them; higher Throwing Skill will also cause the debuffs outside of poison to last longer. '''Curare Needles''' in particular are devastatingly powerful and will be useful for a long while - plus it isn't effected by the Throwing skill (though you still need Throwing Skill for firing it out of the Blowgun, so don't entirely skimp on it). Before you have any of that though, just throwing Darts, Stones, and random starter weapons can help whittle stuff down at range before you kill it in Melee.

	==Valuing Potions, Scrolls, and Wands==		==Valuing Potions, Scrolls, and Wands==

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	A simple guide for new players to look into when playing the Ogre. Presented here are some general ideas on how to play with Ogres, and what options are present to them. I mostly wrote this guide because I found that what was written for them to be lacking and not really descriptive of what to do with an Ogre – and because someone mentioned they had no real guide to play from when they started.		A simple guide for new players to look into when playing the Ogre. Presented here are some general ideas on how to play with Ogres, and what options are present to them. I mostly wrote this guide because I found that what was written for them to be lacking and not really descriptive of what to do with an Ogre – and because someone mentioned they had no real guide to play from when they started.

	Ogres are generally difficult to play so a little bit of information on what you can do to survive with them should help new players get started with them. This guide mostly covers a lot of the more specific elements related to setup of Ogres, it doesn't emphasis tactics however in so look elsewhere for that information.		Ogres are generally difficult to play so a little bit of information on what you can do to survive with them should help new players get started with them. This guide mostly covers a lot of the more specific elements related to setup of Ogres, it doesn't emphasis tactics however so look elsewhere for that information. Note that there may be some disagreement with some things mentioned in this guide - as far as I'm concerned that is okay, what is written here is to give you a general idea before and while approaching a game with your own Ogre character.

	==Introduction==		==Introduction==
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	Several of the Gods offer different boons that can aid an Ogre in his quest through the dungeon. Some however are less useful and should probably be avoided. Much like selecting a background, when choosing a God you want to augment the Ogre’s Offense or make up for its lack of Defense.		Several of the Gods offer different boons that can aid an Ogre in his quest through the dungeon. Some however are less useful and should probably be avoided. Much like selecting a background, when choosing a God you want to augment the Ogre’s Offense or make up for its lack of Defense.

	Choice Gods upon reaching the Ecumenical Temple might be ~~Lugonu,~~ Makhleb, Okawaru~~, and Trog. These~~ gods offer a variety of ways to help you both increase your Offensives and/or aid you Defensively. Make a note that Lugonu will take a bit to get the piety up but will otherwise be an awesome pick when worshiping him; though he is normally only available by playing with the Abyssal Knight background in the beginning. Trog is generally ~~begun~~ with on Berserkers, but if you don't plan on using spells you might pick him over Okawaru when playing on a Hunter.		Choice Gods upon reaching the Ecumenical Temple might be Makhleb and Okawaru; these gods offer a variety of ways to help you both increase your Offensives and/or aid you Defensively. With Trog you generally would only worship him after starting with Berserkers, but if you don't plan on using spells you might pick him over Okawaru when playing on a Hunter. If you pick the Abyssal Knight background or somehow manage to obtain worship under Lugonu, it may take time to build up the piety but once you have the god abilities online you'll have a fairly easy time handling anything remotely threatening.

	Fedhas Madash, Jiyva, and Ashenzari are some decent secondary Gods to consider. I say secondary however because while you can gain great benefits from these Gods, there are also some penalties with them – Fedhas for food for instance, Jiyva may cost you a lot of Scrolls and Potions which are important as escape options during any part of the game, and Ashenzari of course has the big problem with the fact that you only get the benefits from him when you curse your equipment - and cursing a Giant Spiked Club will restrict your ability to butcher with it. Jiyva in particular isn’t available in the Ecumenical Temple and the only way you could begin quickly worshiping him is if an early Alter spawned for him in the dungeon		Fedhas Madash, Jiyva, and Ashenzari are some decent secondary Gods to consider. I say secondary however because while you can gain great benefits from these Gods, there are also some penalties with them – Fedhas for food for instance, Jiyva may cost you a lot of Scrolls and Potions which are important as escape options during any part of the game, and Ashenzari of course has the big problem with the fact that you only get the benefits from him when you curse your equipment - and cursing a Giant Spiked Club will restrict your ability to butcher with it. Jiyva in particular isn’t available in the Ecumenical Temple and the only way you could begin quickly worshiping him is if an early Alter spawned for him in the dungeon
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	==Progressive Stat Selection==		==Progressive Stat Selection==
	~~Ogres~~ begin ~~life~~ with 10 Strength, 5 Intelligence, and 3 Dexterity. As ~~Ogres~~ level up, they will get an increase to their Strength naturally every 3 levels. At level 27 you'll have an Ogre with 19 Strength, 5 Intelligence, and 3 Dexterity, before your ~~Ogres~~ Background, the ~~random~~ 9 stat points you can assign, Mutations effecting stats, and Shuffle Cards/Jiyva Stat Shuffle come into play. This makes the Ogre the 2nd Strongest species after Trolls, but in the bottom ~~wrung~~ of the Dumbest species, and tied with Trolls with being the 2nd Least Agile species.		Ogre's begin live with 10 Strength, 5 Intelligence, and 3 Dexterity. As Ogre's level up, they will get an increase to their Strength naturally every 3 levels. At level 27 you'll have an Ogre with 19 Strength, 5 Intelligence, and 3 Dexterity; before your Ogre's Background starting stats, the 9 stat points you can assign, Mutations effecting stats, and Shuffle Cards/Jiyva Stat Shuffle all come into play. This makes the Ogre the 2nd Strongest species after Trolls, but in the bottom rung of the Dumbest species, and tied with Trolls with being the 2nd Least Agile species.

	Due to having such a tremendous bonus in Strength, Ogre's generally never really need to increase the Strength Stat regardless of what background they pick or what style of play they pursue. There are some exceptions like a Ogre Berserker ~~wearing~~ Gold Dragon Armor perhaps but it really is a limited set where training Strength might be even worth considering. By process of elimination, this means that you ~~optimally~~ training up Intelligence or Dexterity on your Ogre when you are given the option.		Due to having such a tremendous bonus in Strength, Ogre's generally never really need to increase the Strength Stat regardless of what background they pick or what style of play they pursue. There are some exceptions like a Ogre Berserker Wearing Gold Dragon Armor perhaps but it really is a limited set where training Strength might be even worth considering. By process of elimination, this means that you are training up Intelligence or Dexterity on your Ogre when you are given the option of picking what stat to train.

	Outside of training up Intelligence and Dexterity to the requisite minimums of 7 or 8 to stave off accidental stat deaths; which stat you train really just depends on how focused you are on spells or when you plan to focus on using spells. Training Intelligence on an Ogre can be helpful in getting basic Utility spells online earlier or for casting higher level spells later on. Even without training Intelligence though you can still eventually get basic Utility spells of Spell Levels 1 to 3 reliably castable at the basic Intelligence of 7 or 8. If spells aren't something you plan on using or initially focusing on for a while, then Dexterity can help you out by giving you immediate returns on slightly improved defenses, which go a long way on ~~Ogres~~ since any improvement to mitigating damage can be a lifesaver.		Outside of training up Intelligence and Dexterity to the requisite minimums of 7 or 8 to stave off accidental stat deaths; which stat you train really just depends on how focused you are on spells or when you plan to focus on using spells. Training Intelligence on an Ogre can be helpful in getting basic Utility spells online earlier or for casting higher level spells later on. Even without training Intelligence though you can still eventually get basic Utility spells of Spell Levels 1 to 3 reliably castable at the basic Intelligence of 7 or 8. If spells aren't something you plan on using or initially focusing on for a while, then Dexterity can help you out by giving you immediate returns on slightly improved defenses; which go a long way on Ogre's since any improvement to mitigating damage can be a lifesaver.

	==Early Game Ogre Skill Training==		==Early Game Ogre Skill Training==